Interview with Andreas Deja
Recently, veteran Disney animator Andreas Deja paid The Animation Workshop a visit, where he was interviewed by four students. Read the results here!
Interview written & conducted by Stine Sæthre, Andreea Jebelean, Dionysis Douliakas & Carmen Hannibal
Andreas Deja grew up Dinslaken in Germany. He has been an animator at Disney for about 30 years. He’s known for having been the supervising animator for characters like Scar ("The Lion King"), Jafar ("Aladdin"), Gaston ("Beauty and the Beast"). After having seen “The Jungle Book” he became determined to become an animator. At the age of 11 he wrote a letter to Disney for advice. When he received an answer, his goal was set. After completing university in Germany he entered the Disney trainee program and after 4 weeks he was hired. Recently he left Disney to focus on his own projects.
The Animation Workshop was fortunate enough to have Andreas Deja visit a couple of weeks ago and we met him for an interview about his journey in animation, working at Disney and his outlook on animation today.
Have you ever doubted whether working in animation was the right choice for you?
- No, it was always animation that I wanted to do. But also yes, in the sense if I was good enough to succeed. There weren't any animation schools in Germany back then, so I was mostly self-taught. Then there was my family, they thought I was crazy. They are catholic and have no art background at all. Just imagine the shock they had when they found out their teenage son is drawing naked people at life drawing class. Leaving my family was the biggest sacrifice I had to make to reach my goal.
- I was always driven, disciplined and just reached out for it. It takes courage to keep going and I didn't know many who were taking the same path as me. In university however I met a friend who was also interested in animation, his name is Hans. We supported and pushed each other, studying together and analyzing animation frame by frame using a super 8 camera. Hans later became an art director in the industry. He had a great sense of color and I learned a lot from him.
- In general I think you can learn anything if you have real interest and passion for it. For example when I started at Disney I was very caught up in thinking that animation is about drawings but then I was constantly told "don't animate drawings, animate feelings". They really didn't want to talk about the technical side; all they thought about was the feeling in the animation. Acting was my weakness and draftsmanship was my strength. I needed to forget about my strength and focus on my weakness to learn acting. You really have to crawl into the characters' head and animate from the inside, to know what the character is thinking at any given moment.
- Today people don't really know what animation is and how it works. Some think that “Tangled” is a 2D movie. Even though they see the “making of” it doesn't mean they understand how much hard work goes into it. Once I met this woman at a party. My friend introduced me and asked if she knew what animation was, which she didn’t. He told her that I draw 24 drawings a second. She didn’t believe it, how can someone possibly be able to do that? At the end she left and just gave me this weird look like I was some kind of an alien. That was a funny experience.
What is your main inspiration today?
- The past of Disney. The character acting and design that they were able to produce is still at the highest standard. I used to flip animation in the archives and I always thought to myself: Will I ever be able to do that?
- When I came to Disney I discovered how differently the animators worked. Marc Davis for example did even charts, which require more drawings. He would always say the more drawings, the more control you have over the animation. Milt Kahl would do a chart for every overlap. Frank Thomas wouldn’t always do the whole drawing, only the part that needed animation. He made rougher drawings than the others, and was insecure of his draftsmanship so he always kept the animation moving. Remembering the nine old men and how they worked and what they worked for is still really inspiring to me.
- It also inspires me to start on something new, like a new character for example. This always opens up a new drawer inside of me. I think you should strive to develop and to avoid repeating yourself.
Did you ever consider doing more abstract animation?
- Yes absolutely, maybe now is the time for it. I've always been interested in color and I've always liked doing a little visual effects like ropes or water. It’s freeing not to have to think about a character but to animate pure emotions in an abstract way. You don’t need a character to show feelings you know. It would be great to do something with strong musical shapes like Oskar Fischinger, I love that stuff.
How do you think Disney has changed since you started working there?
- Since I started there, it has gotten better. For example, in the movie "The Little Mermaid" there was an inconsistency in the draftsmanship regarding the character Ariel. Also, the colors were not nice. On the other hand, the movie "Aladdin" was much better with colors and the backgrounds were beautiful.
- Later on, the output from the studio became too high, there were too many projects at the same time, and there was less focus on the quality. People at the studio were working a lot and the spark that we had was eventually lost.
How do you keep yourself motivated?
- The feeling that you get when the animation that you have done is working, when you manage to bring something to life and it looks alive and natural, there is nothing like it! It is a very motivating feeling!
When do you know if the animation that you are doing is good?
- You have a gut feeling when the animation is right. I like to show my animations to people that can't draw, like my sister or the manager. If they like it, then it's a fantastic day! It’s a magical thing to be able to breathe life into a lifeless drawing.
- The most nerve-wracking and exciting moment is when I’m doing a pose test (pencil test?). After 30 years in the business, it still gets my heart pounding. If I find out what is not working I have to fix it at that time, no matter what time it is.
Do you ever have difficulties animating?
- Absolutely. For instance in the beginning of the movie “The Lion King” where a rhino is rising its head, it looks like an easy shot but I think I made at least ten versions of it. For instance, I did the first shot of “The Lion King” where a rhino raises its head, and of course the first shot of a movie should be good. It might look like an easy shot to do, but I think I made a least ten takes on it. Another example is from animating a scene when Jafar and Iago from “Aladdin” are going to turn their heads towards each other. You won’t believe how many ways one can turn one’s head.
You have animated many villains, is there a specific reason for that?
- What happens at Disney is that if the people responsible for each movie see that you are good at animating a specific type of character, they will keep giving similar characters to you. Also, I animated a couple of those villains because I asked to. I told the studio that I could do something good with these characters, since they really spoke to me. I showed that I had a passion for it, which I believe to be very important. Villains are very interesting characters, they have the most “juice” in them, and they invite you to explore them. So, if something fascinates you, then you should probably explore it.
- After having finished animating Jafar from "Aladdin" I wanted to try something different than villains. But when I heard Jeremy Irons’ voice recording for Scar in The "Lion King", I knew that I had to animate that character! His design is based a lot on Jeremy Irons' appearance, and when I was animating Scar, I used the actor’s mouth shapes and facial expressions.
- A funny story about Jeremy Irons is that at one point, while he was recording his voice for Scar, his stomach was growling. The growling sound could be heard in his recording, so we had to record that part of his dialogue all over again.
What do you think is the future for 2d animation?
- The future doesn't look too positive, but it didn't either when I started. Who knows, there must be somebody who really believes in 2D animation at the front. It’s about taking risks in stories and visuals. 3D animation has great potential, not just because it’s popular, but I want to see something new. For there to be more interesting films, someone needs to take a risk. A short film Disney made in 2004 called “Lorenzo” was something new, with their works with background and pastel outlines. The film has to be taken care of also in a marketing sense, so people know about it. You can make a great product, but if it sits under a rock, it will not be known.
Do you think something is missing in animation today?
- I miss the feeling of weight in 3D animation. I usually don't feel the steps of a character and when you turn the sound off you can see a bit up and down but not enough weight, and it becomes a bit floaty. The facial movement is not rigid like the jaw, so it needs to be animated more in 3D. Concerning the looks, maybe 3D should render a bit less. We don't necessarily need to see every leaf, show the ones in front and let the back be a shape!
Interview written & conducted by Stine Sæthre, Andreea Jebelean, Dionysis Douliakas & Carmen Hannibal
Andreas Deja grew up Dinslaken in Germany. He has been an animator at Disney for about 30 years. He’s known for having been the supervising animator for characters like Scar ("The Lion King"), Jafar ("Aladdin"), Gaston ("Beauty and the Beast"). After having seen “The Jungle Book” he became determined to become an animator. At the age of 11 he wrote a letter to Disney for advice. When he received an answer, his goal was set. After completing university in Germany he entered the Disney trainee program and after 4 weeks he was hired. Recently he left Disney to focus on his own projects.
The Animation Workshop was fortunate enough to have Andreas Deja visit a couple of weeks ago and we met him for an interview about his journey in animation, working at Disney and his outlook on animation today.
Have you ever doubted whether working in animation was the right choice for you?
- No, it was always animation that I wanted to do. But also yes, in the sense if I was good enough to succeed. There weren't any animation schools in Germany back then, so I was mostly self-taught. Then there was my family, they thought I was crazy. They are catholic and have no art background at all. Just imagine the shock they had when they found out their teenage son is drawing naked people at life drawing class. Leaving my family was the biggest sacrifice I had to make to reach my goal.
- I was always driven, disciplined and just reached out for it. It takes courage to keep going and I didn't know many who were taking the same path as me. In university however I met a friend who was also interested in animation, his name is Hans. We supported and pushed each other, studying together and analyzing animation frame by frame using a super 8 camera. Hans later became an art director in the industry. He had a great sense of color and I learned a lot from him.
- In general I think you can learn anything if you have real interest and passion for it. For example when I started at Disney I was very caught up in thinking that animation is about drawings but then I was constantly told "don't animate drawings, animate feelings". They really didn't want to talk about the technical side; all they thought about was the feeling in the animation. Acting was my weakness and draftsmanship was my strength. I needed to forget about my strength and focus on my weakness to learn acting. You really have to crawl into the characters' head and animate from the inside, to know what the character is thinking at any given moment.
- Today people don't really know what animation is and how it works. Some think that “Tangled” is a 2D movie. Even though they see the “making of” it doesn't mean they understand how much hard work goes into it. Once I met this woman at a party. My friend introduced me and asked if she knew what animation was, which she didn’t. He told her that I draw 24 drawings a second. She didn’t believe it, how can someone possibly be able to do that? At the end she left and just gave me this weird look like I was some kind of an alien. That was a funny experience.
What is your main inspiration today?
- The past of Disney. The character acting and design that they were able to produce is still at the highest standard. I used to flip animation in the archives and I always thought to myself: Will I ever be able to do that?
- When I came to Disney I discovered how differently the animators worked. Marc Davis for example did even charts, which require more drawings. He would always say the more drawings, the more control you have over the animation. Milt Kahl would do a chart for every overlap. Frank Thomas wouldn’t always do the whole drawing, only the part that needed animation. He made rougher drawings than the others, and was insecure of his draftsmanship so he always kept the animation moving. Remembering the nine old men and how they worked and what they worked for is still really inspiring to me.
- It also inspires me to start on something new, like a new character for example. This always opens up a new drawer inside of me. I think you should strive to develop and to avoid repeating yourself.
Did you ever consider doing more abstract animation?
- Yes absolutely, maybe now is the time for it. I've always been interested in color and I've always liked doing a little visual effects like ropes or water. It’s freeing not to have to think about a character but to animate pure emotions in an abstract way. You don’t need a character to show feelings you know. It would be great to do something with strong musical shapes like Oskar Fischinger, I love that stuff.
How do you think Disney has changed since you started working there?
- Since I started there, it has gotten better. For example, in the movie "The Little Mermaid" there was an inconsistency in the draftsmanship regarding the character Ariel. Also, the colors were not nice. On the other hand, the movie "Aladdin" was much better with colors and the backgrounds were beautiful.
- Later on, the output from the studio became too high, there were too many projects at the same time, and there was less focus on the quality. People at the studio were working a lot and the spark that we had was eventually lost.
How do you keep yourself motivated?
- The feeling that you get when the animation that you have done is working, when you manage to bring something to life and it looks alive and natural, there is nothing like it! It is a very motivating feeling!
When do you know if the animation that you are doing is good?
- You have a gut feeling when the animation is right. I like to show my animations to people that can't draw, like my sister or the manager. If they like it, then it's a fantastic day! It’s a magical thing to be able to breathe life into a lifeless drawing.
- The most nerve-wracking and exciting moment is when I’m doing a pose test (pencil test?). After 30 years in the business, it still gets my heart pounding. If I find out what is not working I have to fix it at that time, no matter what time it is.
Do you ever have difficulties animating?
- Absolutely. For instance in the beginning of the movie “The Lion King” where a rhino is rising its head, it looks like an easy shot but I think I made at least ten versions of it. For instance, I did the first shot of “The Lion King” where a rhino raises its head, and of course the first shot of a movie should be good. It might look like an easy shot to do, but I think I made a least ten takes on it. Another example is from animating a scene when Jafar and Iago from “Aladdin” are going to turn their heads towards each other. You won’t believe how many ways one can turn one’s head.
You have animated many villains, is there a specific reason for that?
- What happens at Disney is that if the people responsible for each movie see that you are good at animating a specific type of character, they will keep giving similar characters to you. Also, I animated a couple of those villains because I asked to. I told the studio that I could do something good with these characters, since they really spoke to me. I showed that I had a passion for it, which I believe to be very important. Villains are very interesting characters, they have the most “juice” in them, and they invite you to explore them. So, if something fascinates you, then you should probably explore it.
- After having finished animating Jafar from "Aladdin" I wanted to try something different than villains. But when I heard Jeremy Irons’ voice recording for Scar in The "Lion King", I knew that I had to animate that character! His design is based a lot on Jeremy Irons' appearance, and when I was animating Scar, I used the actor’s mouth shapes and facial expressions.
- A funny story about Jeremy Irons is that at one point, while he was recording his voice for Scar, his stomach was growling. The growling sound could be heard in his recording, so we had to record that part of his dialogue all over again.
What do you think is the future for 2d animation?
- The future doesn't look too positive, but it didn't either when I started. Who knows, there must be somebody who really believes in 2D animation at the front. It’s about taking risks in stories and visuals. 3D animation has great potential, not just because it’s popular, but I want to see something new. For there to be more interesting films, someone needs to take a risk. A short film Disney made in 2004 called “Lorenzo” was something new, with their works with background and pastel outlines. The film has to be taken care of also in a marketing sense, so people know about it. You can make a great product, but if it sits under a rock, it will not be known.
Do you think something is missing in animation today?
- I miss the feeling of weight in 3D animation. I usually don't feel the steps of a character and when you turn the sound off you can see a bit up and down but not enough weight, and it becomes a bit floaty. The facial movement is not rigid like the jaw, so it needs to be animated more in 3D. Concerning the looks, maybe 3D should render a bit less. We don't necessarily need to see every leaf, show the ones in front and let the back be a shape!
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